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View Full Version : Week 45: Superheroes- An Overview



StevenForbes
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 05:35 PM
It’s Tuesday! You’ve been looking forward this, haven’t you? Well, to tell the truth, so have I. It’s a long time from Tuesday to Tuesday, and between you and me, I gotta say, I miss you. You’re my favorite. No, really. You are. Just don’t tell the others, okay?

But, it’s time for some Bolts & Nuts! So, let’s get started.

It’s been a while since I’ve talked about actual writing. I’ve been talking about lots of other things when it comes to creation and such that I’ve kinda moved away from the writing aspects. Time to correct that. So, for the next little while, I’m going to be talking about writing. For now, I’m going to focus on superheroes, because like I said way back in the mists of time, everyone has a superhero universe or three, just waiting to burst out.

Yes, it’s totally possible that we could be here for a LONG time.

Like it or not, whenever someone says “comic book” in America to what we’ll call the layperson [those not in comics: they don’t read them, they don’t write them, they barely know Spider-Man is Peter Parker], the first thing they thinks about are superheroes. In America, comics equal superheroes, and everyone wants to add to the pantheon in any way they can. You have the House that Stan and Jack built, you have Detective Comics [the true name of DC], and that’s really about it. Yes, there are others, but really, to the layperson, it doesn’t matter that Spawn [they’ve seen the movie, which is why they know him] isn’t in the same universe as Marvel/DC. It’s just not something they think of, if they think of it in the first place. It’s basically Marvel/DC to them, if they’re able to get that far, and that’s it.

Now, we also know that superheroes are adolescent power fantasies, generally male, but sometimes female. Now, if you want to break it down further, they’re also highly sexual in nature. There aren’t many superheroes/villains that aren’t extremely well endowed, attractive, and wearing outfits that aren’t painted on.

So, we know all of that, and if it’s news to you, then you haven’t been paying attention.

Now, superheroes generally have fantastic abilities, and this is what I want to talk about for a little while first.

The first thing that happens when you get an idea for a superhero is that you really don’t know anything much about them except for some powers. When you were younger and creating superheroes, they were probably Superman with a different costume and name. And I’m talking about the pre-Byrne Superman: a character that was supremely over-powered, because you didn’t want him to be beaten. As you got older, you refined the character, powering him down in order to let him be more than a tank. [Basically, you “Byrned” your character.] That’s all well and good, but you started your character off with powers.

If you read a lot of superhero comics, eventually you’re going to play the “Wouldn’t It Be Cool If…” game. It’s inevitable. You’re not going to care about anything else besides a set of powers and a name. You’re not worried about a costume yet, you’re not worried about a nemesis, you’re not worried about anything besides powers and their uses.

I’m not going to say this is wrong. This is how a lot of us do it. What I want to caution you to do, however, is to create a complete character.

As we’ve gotten older as a society, we’ve [seemingly] grown more sophisticated. This should be present in your characters, as well. Your heroes are rarely good “just because it’s the right thing to do” anymore. They have reasons for doing what they do, and rarely is it for goodwill towards man. Make sure that your reasons have the ring of truth around them, because if you just tack a reason on, you’ll be making a character worth less than the paper it’s printed on.

There are lots of reasons for someone want to be a crimefighter. They may be trying to live up to past guilt [Spider-Man], they may want to punish criminals for taking away something or someone precious to them [Batman], or any of a dozen billion reasons and rationalizations. [Actually, there are very few compelling reasons for true heroics, with most basically being a variation of a theme. Look around and see how many variations of the same thing you can find.]

The reasons for heroics have to be good, but the reasons for villainy have to be better. No matter what anyone tells you, your heroes will be defined by their villains. Your villains have to be stronger or smarter [or both] than the heroes they fight. Villains need a special reason for being—revenge is one of the bigger ones, but you also have things like greed and being power hungry as well. Just like the heroes, your villain need a compelling reason for being. Give that to them, make it memorable, and you’ll have a good villain on your hands.

Powers, though, are the big thing. Characterization is going to be vital, but it takes time to come up with characterization. For the nonce, let’s talk powers.

When I got really deep into creating characters, I used the Marvel Super Heroes Saga system. It was a card based system, with five different suits. It was pretty nifty for what it was, and it covered a decent amount of powers.

Let’s talk about Iceman for a moment, under this system. At his base, he has Ice Control as a power. Everything else that stems from that is listed as a Stunt under that Control power. Covering/turning himself into ice, ice blasts, ice slides, and ice shapes—basic things that Iceman uses, and they’re all listed as stunts under this system. The beauty of the system, to my mind, is that it forces you to truly THINK about the powers you wanted to use, instead of just throwing together a hodge-podge of things.

Let’s talk Green Lantern under this system. (But Steven, it’s for Marvel….) [Don’t start yer whining! Just because it says Marvel doesn’t mean it can’t be used for other universes.] GL himself would have no powers [I’m talking anyone who is not Alan Scott or Jade], but would have Equipment. His Equipment would have the power of Cosmic Energy Control, with a few limitations. Under this system, Cosmic Energy Control is a catch-all power set.

So, like I said, it forces you to think about the base set of powers, and then expand from there. [This system is no longer being published, distributed, or supported. There may be some people still playing it, and have come up with their own unofficial supplements, but I believe they are few and far between nowadays.]

Why go into all of this?

Because I want you to think about the powers you’re giving your superheroes. Generally speaking, names follow the powers, and can also give an indication of whether or not they’re a hero or villain. This can lead you to a reason for being for the character, and quite possibly relationships to other characters you may or may not have made already Yes, all of that from a set of powers. But I want you to think of the character’s powers at their base, and then move up the ranks to stunts from there.

I also want you to think about how powerful you want to make your hero. Your hero’s power level is EXTREMELY important. Basically, you don’t want to have Superman stopping muggers all the time. Once in a while? Sure. All the time? How exciting is that? (Not very.) Exactly. The power levels of your characters will determine the types of stories you’ll tell. You’ll only go outside that power level on occasion.

Also, realize that writing superheroes, you’re basically dealing with science fiction. If you’re writing them, you are, by necessity, a science fiction writer. [We’ll get into magic and such later.] You’re also a soap opera writer.

Superheroics have certain tropes that have to be used in order to be successful. The hero has to be weaker than the villain, has to overcome really bad odds, and has to have personal problems that his powers won’t help them with—or if they do, the help is more trouble than it’s worth. The hero has to be in trouble, or has to find a way to get out of a really tight spot, and it cannot be something easily seen.

This means you have to be smarter than your readers. Not all of them, just most of them. You’ll never be smarter than all of them, but you’ll have to be smarter than most of them. You have to put your hero in a situation that needs a unique way of getting out of. This, folks, is a LOT harder than it looks.

I don’t suggest trying to start out with an ongoing series, but if you do, you need to have subplots running concurrent to the main story. This means that you also have to plot out your stories well in advance. You also have to work out when you’ll be resolving those main plots, advancing the subplots, and creating more.

Superheroics is the main stomping grounds of ongoing series. Without careful plotting, you can run into a great deal of trouble pretty easily. Thankfully, there’s help.

In Denny O’Neil’s book, The DC Guide to Writing Comics, he gives an example of what he calls the Levitz Paradigm. In the paradigm, he charts out what the main plot is, per issue, as well as the subplots. It also charts when the main plot will resolve, and when the subplot gets promoted. The chart itself is pretty simple, but can be an invaluable tool when you want to see where you’re at and where you’re going.

Wow. This seemed really fast with a lot of quick hits. Next week, we’re going to talk about character types, still within the superhero set. Let’s consider this as an overview, and we’ll start going into specifics next week.

See you then!

SebastianPiccione
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 07:33 PM
NOW we're talking!

When I create my characters, I use the old MAYFAIR GAMES rules from the DC HEROES ROLE PLAYING GAME. 3rd Edition donchew know.

It was last seen being used for the BLOOD OF HEROES RPG.

Anyway, it works similar in terms of powers, however it's a points based system. Each character starts with 450 points, and you buy everything from your powers to your equiptment, wealth and what have you.

What helps here is, if you want to create more or less powerful characters, you halve or double (or quadruple, etc.) the base 450. This helps keep the characters balanced.

Plus, it has allowances for advantages or weaknesses for powers and/or equiptment.

Things like if it can be taken away in combat, does it need recharging, how strong is it, how much punishment can it take, etc.

It's all the little things that help get you fleshing out that character!

Sliverbane
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 07:56 PM
Now, we also know that superheroes are adolescent power fantasies, generally male, but sometimes female. Now, if you want to break it down further, they’re also highly sexual in nature. There aren’t many superheroes/villains that aren’t extremely well endowed, attractive, and wearing outfits that aren’t painted on.

*record scratch* Hold on!! Well endowed in what way? One of the things I noted about MANY male superheroes is despite all the ripped muscles they are more often than not - drawn with small and or diminished packages. Not all but damn near it... While women's boobs practically drag on the ground or block out the sun. I've surmised that it is just men drawing men thing. 'Oooo, don't make his penis look bigger than mine!!' *devious grin* But that's just me.

As I've read your column you've really boosted my confidence. 50% of the time I'm right there with you... I've embraced the concept. Or I already know and understand what you're talking about from past experiences. The other 50% is all new information that I am greedily adding to my mental library. It's kinda of exciting that half of the time I've been getting it right. ;)

For instance; a characters powers and how they affect relationships with other characters. YES! I look forward to discussing powers that are 'magically derived'.

I have a character that by all accounts should be a dangerous villain - However, he doesn't coin himself a villain. It's hard to make friends when you're a demon. Especially one with ' insatiable urges' like he has... ;)


The reasons for heroics have to be good, but the reasons for villainy have to be better. No matter what anyone tells you, your heroes will be defined by their villains. Your villains have to be stronger or smarter [or both] than the heroes they fight. Villains need a special reason for being—revenge is one of the bigger ones, but you also have things like greed and being power hungry as well. Just like the heroes, your villain need a compelling reason for being. Give that to them, make it memorable, and you’ll have a good villain on your hands.

Oh, man this one is tough, but an exciting challenge. I ask myself that question constantly. And as a result have turned my lead antagonist in to a very complex web of instincts and desires. It's his nature to destroy, but what else is there? Conquest? Personal gratification? And then what? Rule the world? Boooring! There has to be more! So I went further... Something was taken from him at the height of his power. He was about to smash his enemies and claim is well earned victory and the 'people upstairs' said 'We are done - it's all over - go home'. So he stewed for a few thousand years - the obedient solider. Then an opportunity arose he snatched it up. 'Time to settle the score. Finish what I started. And put anyone or thing down that gets in my way'. Naturally what starts out as a quest for retribution spirals in to something much more sinister. (By way of other influences and events)

So...uh, yeah. Great Overview...eagerly awaiting more. :p

SebastianPiccione
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 08:07 PM
I LOVE my villains! I like them better than my heroes, and I really REALLY like my heroes.

Once you have a few really well developed villains, the rest of your villains are easier, because you can play them off the big guys.

Many of my villains are lackeys to the main guys, willingly or for their own ulterior villainous motives.

The real fun is figuring out who is actually using whom! :cool:

Sliverbane
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 08:44 PM
The real fun is figuring out who is actually using whom! :cool:

Yes! Exactly!! :eek::)

Dungbeetle
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:16 PM
'Bane, you have to remember when gay ancient Greek sculptors were crafting likenesses of gods etc. they always had small weenies too.

You'd have to be a pretty messed up villain to actually accept yourself as the villain, most don't.

I think I've been writing my "powers" backwards... I want to do a very small scale British domestic setting vaguely "superhero" type thing, just so I can get some practice in doing one shots, whereas before I've been writing continuous chapter-based stuff... Here we're dealing with strange goings on in a fictional area of London, some of the kids who have (mostly mental) powers "reality hacking" etc. and the shadowy government "talent scouts" who frequent their Academy school (the Academies in England are the names for special "non curriculum" schools they open up, generally in deprived areas).

Anyway, reason I say I've been doing this backwards (perhaps to my own detrement) is because one main theme running through it is belief. The kids can do these things because they think in a different way from everyone around them. As the story unfolds we find that only a few of the older students have any abilities. The Powers That Be are trying to harness them, confine them, and don't really understand that the powers stem from individuality... so we have, for example, a kid who goes invisible (or more accurately, makes people not realize he's there) because he's an outcast/recluse, and a photography student who is a voyeur, who's psychic ability seems to revolve around remote viewing of a location he's previously photographed. We also have a boy who is an Afghan refugee, and is potentially a walking bomb, but who manages to stay calm despite the racist bullying he is subject to, and a telepathic narrator who is the only other character who knows this, and also never speaks because he knows what everyone thinks before they say it (imagine the low self esteem you'd ACTUALLY have with that power?).

Maybe it'll just be dull and I'm trying to draw too much on my experience of working with young people, and I know the "subverting superheroes" thing has been done to death... I just like the idea of taking the whole teen hero x-men type thing and completely flipping it, concentrating on the real identities, where the powers are purely a burden to most and there is no cosy safehouse to run off to, with an understanding mentor, and no realworld acceptance of the idea of a superhero. We take the convention of the power defining the character and flip it, because these powers are psychic, and a product of the person's background etc. rather than some latent physical ability. What do these kids actually do? Probably steal lots of vodka. I've said too much.

/end masturbatory rant.

Sliverbane
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:28 PM
Bane, you have to remember when gay ancient Greek sculptors were crafting likenesses of gods etc. they always had small weenies too.


This is true!! LOL

StevenForbes
Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:49 PM
*record scratch* Hold on!! Well endowed in what way? One of the things I noted about MANY male superheroes is despite all the ripped muscles they are more often than not - drawn with small and or diminished packages. Not all but damn near it... While women's boobs practically drag on the ground or block out the sun. I've surmised that it is just men drawing men thing. 'Oooo, don't make his penis look bigger than mine!!' *devious grin* But that's just me.

Silverbane, I purposely phrased it that way in order to get this response. Yes, I'm devious that way.

Here's what I want you to note: when dealing with superheroes, we're talking about an idealized version of the human form. Rippling muscles, obscenely large breasts...and penises that are larger than average. You may have to look to notice the bulge, but trust me, its there. And because you're noticing the bulge, and because it's flaccid in the comics, it HAS to be larger than average. You can't get the bulge in a flaccid state any other way. If the penis were erect, then you'd have the tenting of the costume/uniform.

So, yes, the males are well endowed in every sense of the word, and thank you for falling into the word trap. I appreciate it, and knew I could count on you.

Dungbeetle
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 07:16 AM
"t***ies are my kryptonite"

SebastianPiccione
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 01:44 PM
"t***ies are my kryptonite"

I should make a villain who claims this, just so that women will bombard him with with their beautiful bare breasts!

You can almost picture it, the villain, with a slight smirk under his twisted mustache yelling, "Oh No! Not Boobies! Stop. Please. Don't." while topless heroines rush to apprehend the fiend!

AdamH
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 02:21 PM
I should make a villain who claims this, just so that women will bombard him with with their beautiful bare breasts!

You can almost picture it, the villain, with a slight smirk under his twisted mustache yelling, "Oh No! Not Boobies! Stop. Please. Don't." while topless heroines rush to apprehend the fiend!

I'm pretty sure this is the plot for half of the porn comics out there. Unless it's Japanese, then we're getting into tentacles...and honestly that's no good for anyone except the owner of the tentacles.

I mean...not that I've read or watched anything like that, absolutely filthy, all of it.

SebastianPiccione
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 02:26 PM
Sure, Adam, ANYBODY can create a giant phallic space-squid-demon as a villain, but what's his MOTIVATION!? :D

Sliverbane
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 03:37 PM
Here's what I want you to note: when dealing with superheroes, we're talking about an idealized version of the human form. Rippling muscles, obscenely large breasts...and penises that are larger than average. You may have to look to notice the bulge, but trust me, its there. And because you're noticing the bulge, and because it's flaccid in the comics, it HAS to be larger than average. You can't get the bulge in a flaccid state any other way. If the penis were erect, then you'd have the tenting of the costume/uniform.



So you're saying an idealized male looks like he tucks his junk in? Some ideal... :rolleyes:

StevenForbes
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 03:55 PM
So you're saying an idealized male looks like he tucks his junk in? Some ideal... :rolleyes:

Actually, it's not tucked. Look again. The bulge may not be as big as you'd like, but it's there. And it's bigger than what you see walking down the street.

Sliverbane
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 05:03 PM
All I'm saying is some artists seem to omit the junk... Thus, my joy and giddy adulation for Dr. Manhattan. :p

StevenForbes
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 05:07 PM
You, my dear, are just freaky, and are a classic example for the need of Wertham's book... ;)

Dungbeetle
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 05:50 PM
The tittes quote was from Love Sausage, one of the Communist supers from Garth Ennis' "The Boys"... very very amusing. Except they are really his kryptonite... he can't, uh, walk that well when he's excited.

drgerb
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 06:36 PM
I <3 this thread..

Superheroes to junk to Japanese tentacle porn.. Ahh...

That's right, Robin.. Now we're in heaven.

Sliverbane
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 06:54 PM
You, my dear, are just freaky, and are a classic example for the need of Wertham's book...

Are you saying people like me are the reason for [a need for] censorship? Huh? Or is there another Wertham you're referring to. :eek:

I pride myself in my perversity. The anticipation of sin is so...invigorating. :eek::cool:

SebastianPiccione
Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 07:09 PM
The tittes quote was from Love Sausage, one of the Communist supers from Garth Ennis' "The Boys"... very very amusing. Except they are really his kryptonite... he can't, uh, walk that well when he's excited.

Love Sausage is awesome! That storyline was hysterical!

Sliverbane
Wednesday, September 09, 2009, 09:43 PM
This is what I was talking about. I didn't make this. I found it on the net...seems I'm not the only one who thinks there are some missing parts. I don't know which artists are drawing the 'healthy package' you refer to but this strange smooth broad plane over the genitals is pretty much the norm in my experience.

StevenForbes
Thursday, September 10, 2009, 04:37 AM
Next, you'll be getting Superman porn...

Go pick up Herogasm. Maybe that has enough of a bulge for you.

And don't force me to create a parody webcomic! I'm getting ideas...

Dungbeetle
Thursday, September 10, 2009, 09:27 AM
Superman is the new David.

The spandex looks pretty tight. Given that Superman is the "man of steel" I doubt there would be any "tenting" in the event of his arousal. It would just burst out like BAM. Why has this storyline never been explored? Superman tricked into a persistent raging erection through the use of Kryptoagra? Imagine the damage to his PR.

Sliverbane
Thursday, September 10, 2009, 06:48 PM
Guys! I just think the artist ( and many others)avoid the elephant in the room. Maybe it's biased censorship. [Female cleavage for all but no healthy male bulges] Or artists preference/not wanting the character they're drawing to 'out do' them.

No amount of spandex or Lycra will totally displace a 'nice' package. I believe we are not talking about the average male - but above average - maybe well above average.

I'm just saying. :p

Maybe times have changed and I'm missing out on eye-catching male bulges in comics. LOL! I'm all for equal amounts of T n A in comics across genders!

P.S.

Superman porn! I am SO ahead of you. Make that webcomic...I WILL read it.