Week 51- Horror Overview

[StevenForbes]

It’s Tuesday, and I have to say, the convention was a blast. You’ll have to read my blog to hear about it, though. But that’s not why we’re here. Nope! We’re going to sit back and relax for a while, and talk about the Bolts & Nuts of horror.

Like the weeks of superheroes we just went through, we’re going to do an overview first, and then go into particulars. It’s just not going to be as long. Promise. Sound like a plan? Then let’s get it on!

Horror. Really, it means different things to different people, basically because we’re all scared of different things. Most things don’t scare me, but Michael Myers [Halloween] makes my blood run cold. Even the bad movies of his scare me. No, really. I’m afraid of Mike. Jason and Freddy? Not a thing. Throw Mike in there, and I get tingly. Let me hear the theme song, and I’m looking around for the source within four notes.

Yes, I have a very real, visceral reaction to Michael Myers, and I’m going to tell you something: a reaction like that is not something that is easy to do in comics.

It’s hard to scare someone in a comic book setting nowadays. Forty years ago? It might have been easier. In the Fifties? Probably even easier. Why? Because even though you had the scary movies and such, they weren’t all over the media. You had EC in their heyday, scaring the crap out of kids. In this day and age, though, it’s a lot more difficult to scare someone, because we’re desensitized to it. We can turn on the news and hear horror stories all day and all night long. We’ve been watching horror movies for forty years, and they’ve gotten progressively scary and gross. We’ve had shows like Tales from the Darkside, Freddy’s Nightmares, and Friday the Thirteenth: The Series and more to scare us before going to sleep.

Difficult.

Then, there are the things that I think that are the weaknesses of comics. I think that straight novels and film easily beat comics in the realm of horror. In novels, you’re doing nothing but reading the words, without the benefit of pictures. In essence, you’re scaring yourself. In movies, we [now] have sound to help scare the crap out of us, to go along with the pictures.

Personally, I feel that comics nowadays fall down in scaring people because of the fact that, as creators, we’re taking the imagination piece out of it for the reader. They get to see exactly what it is we want them to see—without the added benefit of music.

Then, you have the old standbys of horror in comics: vampires, werewolves, ghosts, zombies, possibly aliens, Satanic magic users, and elder gods. Oh, sure, there are others—maybe technology’s run amok or somesuch—but that’s really about it for hoary standbys that creators pull out time and again. The traditional vampire is so well-worn that it’s no longer scary, causing writers to make things out of whole cloth instead of doing research. [Yes, I’m guilty of it, too.] Werewolves aren’t as well developed, but ghosts and goblins? They’re all over the place, and you don’t have to look that hard.

When writing horror, I urge you to do research in your given area, in order to try to find something old but new to say. Because of the difficulty in being truly scary in comics, you have to find your scares in different ways. Whenever possible, you have to appeal to the mental aspects of your readers. You have to leave as much up to their imagination as possible, in order to scare them.

I was watching The Grudge a few years ago, and while it didn’t outright scare me, it did disturb me, which is saying something for a PG-13 movie. How? Besides the ambience, besides the sound, besides the imagery, a lot was left to the imagination. If you show someone just about to be killed, and then cut away as they’re dying, you’ve left their method of dying up to the imagination of the reader.

This is an extremely old trick that most of you don’t know. Then again, I’m not reading many horror comics. Not truly horrific, anyway. The reason for that being that for generations, we created under the auspices of the Comics Code Authority. DC still operates under the code, the last great bastion that still adheres to it, since Marvel ditched the code in its entirety in 2001. Even though they use their own rating, Marvel’s comics still don’t reach the levels of the truly horrific that they could. They have books/characters that could reach those levels, too: Son of Satan, Ghost Rider, Werewolf by Night, Simon Garth… The list goes on, but the company doesn’t.

Like I said, you have to do research for your horror stories. The more research you do, the more grounded your story should be when you write it. Do ghosts haunt people, places, or things? Do crosses really work on vampires, or would the Star of David work, as well? Do werewolves have any control at all? Do they go full wolf, or can they do half-forms? [I never understood The Wolf Man. Larry Talbot kills the werewolf that is Bela Lugosi, but Lugosi is in full wolf form, and Talbot never gets to change that far. Anyway…] Does silver work on all supernatural creatures? What else could protect you from a vampire attack? If you go and answer a lot of these questions, you’ll more than likely be led down other avenues of research, and will have a more grounded world because of it.

So, knowing your subject matter is first and foremost. Without that, you’re done.

The next thing, of course, is characterization. (What about settings?) What about them? Your choice of horror venue will often choose your setting for you. Sure, vampires can be damned near anywhere, and you can have a werewolf in space [would a werewolf change if they were on a trip to one of Saturn’s moons? Is it Luna, or is it something else], but if you’re going to have a haunting…see what I mean? A setting will suggest itself more often than not, so I’m not overly concerned about having a setting.

Characters, though, are going to be important. Like everything else, there are some tried and true traps that I’d love for you to avoid.

The damsel in distress. For the love of pant-wearing chipmunks, don’t do this! Just don’t. Please, put a twist on it. Oh, and while we’re at it, we all know about the connection between vampires and sex, but for the love of [insert Deity here], leave the sexy female vampire out of it. Again, just don’t. Oh, and leave the Ann Rice gay vampires out of it, too.

I also want you to leave the tortured werewolf who’s looking to get rid of the curse well enough alone, too. You cannot get more whiney than Lon Chaney, Jr. as Lawrence Talbot, so don’t try. For ghosts, let’s leave out the haunted houses, the possessed houses [yes, there’s a difference], and whatever else you’ve seen in horrible 80s movies. I love them, too, and I know there’s a wave of nostalgia right now that everyone’s riding [when The Muppet Show is being sold on the newsstand to multiple sellouts, you know that the Thundercats can’t be too far behind], but unless you have something new to say about it, let’s just leave it be, okay?

And that’s what I really want all of you to do when it comes to the scary stuff. Have something new and different to say. (You say that about everything!) Just about. Doesn’t mean it’s not true, though. Having that twist on it will help set you heads and shoulders above the competition. And believe me, there’s competition.

Now, here’s the real secret of horror comics: as a writer, yours is the least important job. (Wha-?!) Sucks, I know, but really, the script is going to be the least important aspect of a horror comic. Oh, sure, you need to do all the heavy lifting for the characterization and getting into the reader’s head, but the real work is going to be done by the artist. I know, I don’t like it, either, but for horror comics, the artist is the real superstar.

If your artist knows what they’re doing, they’ll frame the stories appropriately. Lots of close-ups in order to give a claustrophobic feeling, possibly thicker panel borders, using a dry brush to give a more scratchy feeling instead of going really slick with their line, or any other technique or combination of techniques in order to bring dread to the reader. Your story helps, but the real heavy lifting will be done by the artist.

The second member of the team that’s going to have the greatest impact on the story will be the colorist, if you choose to employ one. As I’ve grown older, I’ve grown more in love with black and white comics, especially for horror, but a good colorist will also help tell the story with mood lighting. Lots of dark and muddy colors instead of bright, clean ones.

Lastly, the letterer will have a greater impact than normal because of font selection. How nice is that? You wrote the story, but everyone else has a greater impact than you. (The same can be said for any genre, though, right?) I don’t think so. You’re going for a very visceral reaction to the story, and the proper creative team will be even more important because of it.

That’ll do it for this week. Next week, we’ll look more in depth into it. Homework? Go round up some horror comics and start studying them. See you next week!

[MartinBrandt]

I'll tell you one of the hardest parts of horror now days for most. It goes beyond being desensitized as we are now. The monsters have become the heroes.

So much time has been spent these last decades humanizing our creatures of the dark. Giving them very real logical goals. Showing their initial intent and then twisting it into something dark and perverted. Then we sympathize with them.

This is what has helped take the horror out of horror.

Seems these days you need to dig, you need to break the human threshold.

The cheap way out in the last 10 years, cthulhu. So alien in its method and looks, all denizens of this cry out wrong to us. I feel it is cheap because everyone seems to use it when they need that last final push of horror.

I was lucky growing up, vampires and werewolves were never my horror tales. They were legends I studied with much interest among all manner of things. While my friends were reading Tolkien I was reading religious texts and old folk lore. (Okay I was a twisted kid. )

Forbes, you are right. Sometimes the best scare is the one we can't see. Like in this image:

Sure some of you this does nothing, but I have met many people it really screws with. Mainly because they can't see it all. The imagination takes over and starts to twist up some truly horrifying images. Our minds work on the brink of chaos, in that chaos is a darkness personal to each person.

As a writer I think it is our job to tap into that darkness. You can only know your own though, so it is about the build up here. Leave the rest to them.

I can't wait for the next article Forbes. I promise you, no sexy vampires or cursed whiny wolves. :)

[Dungbeetle]

Good stuff.

I was going to rant about horror as allegory but I'll leave it for now. Cthulu mythos can definately be a cop-out, especially seeing as what made the original Lovecraft works scary was that usually the protagonist and probably the reader would have had traditional Christian morals and the ultimate revelation of elder gods or whatever the story was about completely gave their world view the acid bath treatment.

[Sliverbane]

The damsel in distress. For the love of pant-wearing chipmunks, don’t do this! Just don’t. Please, put a twist on it. Oh, and while we’re at it, we all know about the connection between vampires and sex, but for the love of [insert Deity here], leave the sexy female vampire out of it. Again, just don’t. Oh, and leave the Ann Rice gay vampires out of it, too.



I also want you to leave the tortured werewolf who’s looking to get rid of the curse well enough alone, too. You cannot get more whiney than Lon Chaney, Jr. as Lawrence Talbot, so don’t try. For ghosts, let’s leave out the haunted houses, the possessed houses [yes, there’s a difference], and whatever else you’ve seen in horrible 80s movies. I love them, too, and I know there’s a wave of nostalgia right now that everyone’s riding [when The Muppet Show is being sold on the newsstand to multiple sellouts, you know that the Thundercats can’t be too far behind], but unless you have something new to say about it, let’s just leave it be, okay?

I agree on most of your points...but I like the gay vampires, gay demons...etc. LOL (I'm in to that) Oh, are you using gay to refere to something 'stupid'? I...still like the gay vampires. Mind you, the story/universe that they are in makes all the difference! Just to clarify I LOATH anything by that togladyte ass-hat Meyers. I'm not a fan of Rice novels either. And the Underworld movies make me want to punch someone. I just like/love Stuart Townsend. Ha!

As a reader of the Hellraiser comics I have seen prime examples of the things you mentioned: Clever lettering, scratchy dry-brush techniques, bizarre coloring methods. They worked. Some of the Hellraiser stories were very haunting...sometimes down right creepy. Some of the art looked like old washed out photographs, other looked as if they'd been scrawled by a dieing man on parchment with his own blood. Very effective.

[AdamH]

Ann Rice gay vampires? Not a big fan of. I'll read other stuff by here, but I'm not touching those books. Meyers we aren't going to get into because...there's honestly not a column large enough to put all of my thoughts down in about the "Twilight" phenomenon. The Underworld movies, yeah they're bad, and they're not good, but they're entertaining enough to put on when you don't want to think about anything too heavy.

I agree on the leaving out of the sexy female vampire, eventhough it's becoming a common staple in vampire stories, fan-service/eye-candy at best.

I'm a big fan of Twilight Zone and Tales from the Crypt. Those shows had short stories with a twist of an ending that made you think but also frightened you.

[Dungbeetle]

Best vampire appearance ever is in Preacher where Cassidy, being onehundredandsomething years old, meets a newly sired vampire who lives up to the whole stereotype and ends up hating him.

[StevenForbes]

Yes, Silverbane, I meant "gay" as in the modern sense of the word: effeminate men. That's who Anne Rice writes. I like the books up to a point. (Still haven't gotten past Black Farm, and I've started it three times. How long can someone go on about a friggin' cameo? For over 200 pages, apparently...) Anyway, we all know you're kinda warped. No worries.

And I do agree with you, Were-Lock. The monsters HAVE become heroes at best, or sometimes anti-heroes of a sort. The biggest, shortest evil-lution was Freddy Krueger. He went from scary killing machine to funny jackhole in the space of three movies. The next few were him making more bad jokes, and then they finally tried to reclaim him with New Nightmare, but it was basically window dressing. We'll see how scary the new movies will be after the first one.

Horror's going to be something of a fun trip. Then, we'll talk about strawberry shortcake, and possibly children's comics. Then maybe we'll zig back over to superheroes, and then zag to morality tales in modern comics. Then we'll talk about science fiction outside of the superhero setting, how nuanced slice of life comics have to be, and then go over how stripped down short stories have to be. (Basically, all of this is to drive Silverbane crazy by avoiding fantasy like the plague...)

And next week....Next week is my ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY! Well, technically, I guess this week was, because of the introduction, but still! Next week marks fifty-two consecutive weeks of B&N! Wow! I'm pretty stoked!

[MartinBrandt]

I agree on most of your points...but I like the gay vampires, gay demons...etc. LOL (I'm in to that) Oh, are you using gay to refere to something 'stupid'? I...still like the gay vampires. Mind you, the story/universe that they are in makes all the difference! Just to clarify I LOATH anything by that togladyte ass-hat Meyers. I'm not a fan of Rice novels either. And the Underworld movies make me want to punch someone. I just like/love Stuart Townsend. Ha!

As a reader of the Hellraiser comics I have seen prime examples of the things you mentioned: Clever lettering, scratchy dry-brush techniques, bizarre coloring methods. They worked. Some of the Hellraiser stories were very haunting...sometimes down right creepy. Some of the art looked like old washed out photographs, other looked as if they'd been scrawled by a dieing man on parchment with his own blood. Very effective.

The thing with Underworld is that this was never about horror. It has no resembalances to horror at all. It is pure action joy ride. It just so happens what used to pass for monsters are now our villains and heroes of the story. Even then they humanize them so much, be they vampire or werewolf, it doesn't matter what they are doing any more.

Now Hellraiser, Clive Barker in general, that is usually good horror.

Throw some fantasy in there, Clive Barker wrote one of my favorite novels that was part fantasy part horror. It is called Weaveworld. Of course we are talking comics here, but still if you are looking for a good horror/fantasy read check it out.

[CalvinCamp]

(Basically, all of this is to drive Silverbane crazy by avoiding fantasy like the plague...)Silverbane isn't the only one waiting, you know. :mad: Putting off fantasy to talk about Strawberry Shortcake? If you weren't better than halfway across the country... >shakes fist<


Horror is tough. Sometimes I wonder if it works at all in comics (I haven't really seen it work well, but then I haven't read a lot of horror comics either). In my experience, horror only works if it's deeply character driven or suspense driven (ideally both) - and those both work best (maybe only?) with a slow burn. And while I don't mind a slow burn comic, I seem to be in a minority.

And then there's the "once" effect (at least for me). Michael Myers really creeped me out, too... once. But the sequels did nothing for me. One of the myriad of creepy little kid movies, I've forgotten which one, weirded me out a little... once. The people with deformed bone structure, crawling around like spiders, really made my skin crawl... once. The scare only works the first time, and then it has to be a completely different scare (or the same scare ramped up, but that can get old quick too). I'm sure I'm an extreme case of this effect (after all there are tons of repetitious horror movies out there, raking in money), but I still think there's only so many times you can yell, "Boo!" and expect anyone to jump.

Horror (well, let's clarify that - good horror) probably requires more creativity and innovation than any other genre. Honestly, the thought of trying to write horror kind of scares me. :D

[StevenForbes]

Silverbane isn't the only one waiting, you know. :mad: Putting off fantasy to talk about Strawberry Shortcake? If you weren't better than halfway across the country... >shakes fist<

Not Strawberry Shortcake, but strawberry shortcake. See the difference? (Besides, I'm hungry.)

Anyway, fantasy, when I get around to it (sometime after the Obama administration), should be longer than horror, but not as long as superheroes. There are just so many interesting things to talk about before fantasy that it's not even funny! Lepers, giraffes, how paint is made, how to make crepes, the first telescope, how the early Church fathers tried to repress science, electromagnetism...and if we really MUST talk comics, we can talk about color guides, the four color process, RGB vs CYMK, balloon placement, logo design, coming up with good names for your series, where and how to look for work, professionalism, and all kinds of other things that are more important than talking about fantasy.

So, it's coming. Eventually.

[CalvinCamp]

Not Strawberry Shortcake, but strawberry shortcake. See the difference? (Besides, I'm hungry.)You're not getting out of it with a semantic argument, either, damn you! :mad: ;)

Don't mind me. I'm recovering from an all-day migraine, so my mood is a little... weird.


There are just so many interesting things to talk about before fantasy that it's not even funny! Lepers, giraffes, how paint is made, how to make crepes, the first telescope, how the early Church fathers tried to repress science, electromagnetism... Ah... big fan then. Saving the best for last, and all that. :D

[Sliverbane]

Not Strawberry Shortcake, but strawberry shortcake. See the difference? (Besides, I'm hungry.)

Anyway, fantasy, when I get around to it (sometime after the Obama administration), should be longer than horror, but not as long as superheroes. There are just so many interesting things to talk about before fantasy that it's not even funny! Lepers, giraffes, how paint is made, how to make crepes, the first telescope, how the early Church fathers tried to repress science, electromagnetism...and if we really MUST talk comics, we can talk about color guides, the four color process, RGB vs CYMK, balloon placement, logo design, coming up with good names for your series, where and how to look for work, professionalism, and all kinds of other things that are more important than talking about fantasy.

So, it's coming. Eventually.

*SHAKES FIST ALONG WITH MADELF* :mad::D

[Sliverbane]

The thing with Underworld is that this was never about horror. It has no resembalances to horror at all. It is pure action joy ride. It just so happens what used to pass for monsters are now our villains and heroes of the story. Even then they humanize them so much, be they vampire or werewolf, it doesn't matter what they are doing any more.

Now Hellraiser, Clive Barker in general, that is usually good horror.

Throw some fantasy in there, Clive Barker wrote one of my favorite novels that was part fantasy part horror. It is called Weaveworld. Of course we are talking comics here, but still if you are looking for a good horror/fantasy read check it out.

Yes, I agree that Underworld is more like an action movie... (As are the sequels) However the protrayel of moody, smartly dressed (like there was a sale at Hot Topic) vampires is just....meh. Did I mention that everyone looks WET in those movies. Like they never dry off? However, Lycanthrops that can use their transformation [at will] like battle armor was....interesting.

I have a love hate for humanized monsters. Sometimes it helps me understand them better. Sometimes I don't want to understand them. I just want them to be...monsters.

Question for the panel: Can horror be insterted in to a story or does the story have to be horror from the outset?

[MartinBrandt]

Question for the panel: Can horror be insterted in to a story or does the story have to be horror from the outset?

I think horror, like any good element, is evoked. So it can be within any story and does not have to encompass the whole. Even Roger Rabbit had a moment of horror for small children.

(As for the wet comment on Underworld, I agree. The lead guy's hair was always soaked it seemed. To be a vampire or werewolf in their world must mean you sweat a lot.)

[SebastianPiccione]

Sure, you can add horror and/or elements of Horror to any story or genre.

Just like most horror books/movies/comics have elements of other genres added into them (fantasy, sci-fi, comedy, etc.)

[Dungbeetle]

I'd be wary of criticising sultry posh vampires... I mean, it's all good bringing that type of monster down to earth, but the whole point of them, in my mind, is as a metaphor for bloodsucking aristocracy. Hence the men are effeminate and they all wear nice clothes. Well, that's the genre convention. It's been messed with and "brought down to earth" countless times, but there's a reason why it's there in the first place. If you go with traditionally accepted vampire lore them one has to be "sired", which deepens the vampire snobbery. Hmm. Living in the hills, coming down at night to feed off the peasantry? That sound like anybody's landlord perchance?

[AdamH]

Not Strawberry Shortcake, but strawberry shortcake. See the difference? (Besides, I'm hungry.)


I'm still curious about this comment.

Maybe I can write a horror story about strawberry shortcake. Or a horror story about Strawberry Shortcake (TM) (R)

[StevenForbes]

Question for the panel: Can horror be insterted in to a story or does the story have to be horror from the outset?

I remember, quite a few years ago, where a story arc in Marvel's Bishop comic won an award for horror. (Yes, I know I went way back. It's okay.)

So, to answer the question, yes, you can 'insert' horror into a story, or even mix genre's. However, I suggest having it be organic to the story. If it's something that just gets tacked on, readers will notice, and you'll throw them right out of the story. However, if it is organic AND they don't see it coming AND it fits...congratulations on good storytelling. Just make sure you have a way out of it. (We'll talk about writing yourself into a corner sometime in the future.)

[StevenForbes]

I'm still curious about this comment.

Maybe I can write a horror story about strawberry shortcake. Or a horror story about Strawberry Shortcake (TM) (R)

I'd like to see both! The first seems kinda Stephen King-ish, and the second would be just great!

[drgerb]

I promise you, no sexy vampires or cursed whiny wolves.

Hmm... What about a sexy wolf and a cursed whiny vampire? Woo, that's a twist! To the writing board!


And I do agree with Steven. A movie has sound and music. A good movie can show a girl scared for her life wandering around just KNOWing a killer is in the house with her. In a comic? Try putting one character "on screen" in five consecutive panels scared for her life. That'll get boring before it gets scary. Throw in some eerie music on a big screen, some conveniently placed shadows and have freakin' Carrot Top or Pauly Shore looking for the killer, and boom. You've got the audience watching, not bored. Maybe they're just watching to see Pauly get killed, but alas: They are watching.

In comics I think you gotta kinda take a different route. Horror movies are horror. Horror comics, when trying the same kinds of things as the movies, are often bored, or just not as scary. Instead of being able to use music / sound, you gotta go a different route and find something else to use to your advantage when it comes to the medium / story telling. What is that? If I knew I probably wouldn't be here typing it; I'd probably be writing something. :/

[MartinBrandt]

I'd be wary of criticising sultry posh vampires... I mean, it's all good bringing that type of monster down to earth, but the whole point of them, in my mind, is as a metaphor for bloodsucking aristocracy. Hence the men are effeminate and they all wear nice clothes. Well, that's the genre convention. It's been messed with and "brought down to earth" countless times, but there's a reason why it's there in the first place. If you go with traditionally accepted vampire lore them one has to be "sired", which deepens the vampire snobbery. Hmm. Living in the hills, coming down at night to feed off the peasantry? That sound like anybody's landlord perchance?

I think perhaps you need to check your lore. The one you have there is closer to a Bram Stoker or perhaps even John Polidori. This is your aristocratic style vampire. The true lore lies much deeper.

Some vampire and even werewolf lore hold some place in the realm of disease and plague.

The Humanized version came much later in the lore, it came in the form of fiction. It was not from tales passed down by scared villagers but from authors seeking to sell books. :)

[StevenForbes]

I have to find my copy of Dracula and read it again for a story I want to write. I have a great story idea (ideas, really), and just now got in contact with an artist to help me bring part one to life.

It's just too bad I'll be sitting on the art for a couple of months if he agrees to do it. However, it'll all be for the best. I'll be publishing it on the web, and moving it to print from there. I just need to find time to write the other installments! If I don't come up for air for a while, you'll know where to find me.

[Dungbeetle]

I think perhaps you need to check your lore. The one you have there is closer to a Bram Stoker or perhaps even John Polidori. This is your aristocratic style vampire. The true lore lies much deeper.

Some vampire and even werewolf lore hold some place in the realm of disease and plague.

The Humanized version came much later in the lore, it came in the form of fiction. It was not from tales passed down by scared villagers but from authors seeking to sell books. :)

Aaaaargh. By "Lore" I meant "Canon".

The most historically correct version doesn't automatically become the most entertaining, or meaningful, for that matter. Like I said, horror is at its best when it's allegorical. Frankenstein is horror but it's also often viewed as the original science fiction story because it deals with the subject of man playing God. A vampire that is not aristocratic may be more in keeping with folklore, but does it make a good story, or does it just turn the vampire back into a generic monster that could for all intents and purposes be replaced with a goblin, big scary dog or mother in law? The idea of vampires needing to be sired just builds upon this.

You can take that or leave it. I just think the idea of vampires as metaphor for social parasites preying on the vulnerable can still be flipped a million different original ways if people want to. You obviously don't share my opinion of landlords.

Gerb - I can remember Alan Moore's Swamp Thing making my skin crawl. I think it was a combination of the acidic colours (note, sometimes crazy phantasmogasm colour schemes are actually more horrific than black, black, blaaaack) and Moore's often OTT purple prose. But I think having to read all the captions gives back an element of the novel to the comic, leaving room to explain the inner world, while letting the images just be suggestive. I think that's why Hellblazer works for me to, because it's mostly first person captioned. It's not a typical horror thing. You're not scared for Constantine. It's just the actual concept of some of the demons, curses etc. as they become apparent. Sense of creeping dread. Page turns aplenty.

I also read The Filth recently. Not really a horror comic but aspects of it were really frightening (surprisingly enough, for me, this was the more down-to-earth story aspects). The protagonists life is just being systematically ruined in every possible way and it just had that nightmarish quality, like a dream where nobody will believe you. I think it also worked better because it only really revolved around one character so you were forced into sympathizing. Think about the horror movies you watch. There's a difference between a true horror movie and a slasher. Slashers are full of superflous douchebags who you can't wait to go. If you liked them, you wouldn't enjoy the film. Proper horror is more subtle in that the writer, whatever medium, has to make you sympathize with the characters, or the whole thing falls apart.

That's my two pence anyway.

[MartinBrandt]

Aaaaargh. By "Lore" I meant "Canon".

The most historically correct version doesn't automatically become the most entertaining, or meaningful, for that matter. Like I said, horror is at its best when it's allegorical. Frankenstein is horror but it's also often viewed as the original science fiction story because it deals with the subject of man playing God. A vampire that is not aristocratic may be more in keeping with folklore, but does it make a good story, or does it just turn the vampire back into a generic monster that could for all intents and purposes be replaced with a goblin, big scary dog or mother in law? The idea of vampires needing to be sired just builds upon this.

You can take that or leave it. I just think the idea of vampires as metaphor for social parasites preying on the vulnerable can still be flipped a million different original ways if people want to. You obviously don't share my opinion of landlords.



Sorry, just when someone says Lore vs standard Fiction application I get a bit touchy perhaps. There are too many children in this world (some of them even in their 30s at this point) who don't understand the basis for things. To them Ann Rice and Whitewolf created vampires and werewolves or they based their works "directly" from source legends and myths.

It is a pet peeve, obliviously you know the whole thing or at least the important parts.

Though to me old vampiric lore is more than something that could be replaced by just any monster. There are certain qualities to it, so we can just disagree there. :)

As for landlords, if you mean the ones who rent you houses, oh they are blood suckers.


Proper horror is more subtle in that the writer, whatever medium, has to make you sympathize with the characters, or the whole thing falls apart.


Nail on the head! Without some sympathy for the characters involved it falls flat and will never reach a realm of horror. Well written characters we can become engrossed in is paramount.

I agree. :)

[AdamH]

There are too many children in this world (some of them even in their 30s at this point) who don't understand the basis for things. To them Ann Rice and Whitewolf created vampires and werewolves or they based their works "directly" from source legends and myths.

This is a frightening but true statement. Ann Rice and Whitewolf can introduce you to the world of Vampires and Werewolves, but don't claim they created them. If someone tells you Stephanie Meyer created vampires, I think it would be best to stake them in the heart.

[MartinBrandt]

This is a frightening but true statement. Ann Rice and Whitewolf can introduce you to the world of Vampires and Werewolves, but don't claim they created them. If someone tells you Stephanie Meyer created vampires, I think it would be best to stake them in the heart.

I just punch babies, I find at some point children these days will deserve it anyways. (I kid, I kid.)

Shiney Emo Vampires... What has this world come to?

[Sliverbane]

If someone tells you Stephanie Meyer created vampires, I think it would be best to stake them in the heart.

YES!!




Steven:


I remember, quite a few years ago, where a story arc in Marvel's Bishop comic won an award for horror. (Yes, I know I went way back. It's okay.)

So, to answer the question, yes, you can 'insert' horror into a story, or even mix genre's. However, I suggest having it be organic to the story. If it's something that just gets tacked on, readers will notice, and you'll throw them right out of the story. However, if it is organic AND they don't see it coming AND it fits...congratulations on good storytelling. Just make sure you have a way out of it. (We'll talk about writing yourself into a corner sometime in the future.)

I thought as much. I've been trying to capture a certain amount of horror around my main villain - something that sneaks up on the reader and rapes them in the face! (Sorry for the harsh anaolgy, but I heard that line in movie and it fit) :eek:;)

[MartinBrandt]

I thought as much. I've been trying to capture a certain amount of horror around my main villain - something that sneaks up on the reader and rapes them in the face! (Sorry for the harsh anaolgy, but I heard that line in movie and it fit) :eek:;)


Rapes you in the face. Silverbane, you are fast becoming my favorite. :)

[BarriLang]

I'm writing a book that has Werewolves and the villains so I'm keeping a close eye on this topic. Steve's got the script for iss 1 for the Proving grounds, his kind review plus the Bolts and Nuts should help.

I'm going to be heavilly researching Werewolves now to find any interesting and underused characteristics that may crop up... that being said I also want to stray away from the ctotal fantasy aspect... The wolves can change at any time in my story but the their strength lies in the strenth of the moon's gravitational pull. Full Moon = Stronger Wolf. Also I'm steering clear of silver (well as the method of killing them), silver is a further irritation to them. E.G. Lead Bullets "ow", silver Bullets "OOOOWWWW". They're not invincible, massive trauma to their bodies and organs can and will kill them. "Oh, they'll go down... It just takes a bit more than you're used to giving"

Horror in the comics is a funny one, though I am pleased I "suggested" but haven't shown the 1st killing.

Not sure if that's off topic but I just wanted to say I'm excited about this topic :)

[AdamH]

Do your werewolves rape people in the face? What a twist!

[Dungbeetle]

I always thought the movie Wolf with Jack Nicholson was awesome. Little touches, like his increased sense of smell being able to detect whiskey on a co-workers breath first thing in the morning, and hearing people from right over the other end of the office.

I think the major dumbass trope for me in most stories containing traditional monsters; Werewolves, Vampies, Zombies etc. is where a character doesn't know what they're up against. They get bit by a wolf, starting getting "a little bit wolfy" and for some reason have to go speak to some wise man to find out what's happening because apparently they've been living under a rock and missed fifty years worth of pop culture.

[Dungbeetle]

Do your werewolves rape people in the face? What a twist!

They should definately hump people's legs (and possibly corpses)?

My advice would be to really take yourself out of the genre, research canines and see what traits haven't been properly exploited by previous writers. How do dogs think, how do they understand the world? What happens when that overlaps with regular human thought?

There's a great Hellblazer story. John comes across a flunky wizard who's put his own soul into the body of a dog. The big dog ends up rallying all the other dogs in the area to gang up on him and attack him. John bows down before them, laying his head lower than theirs, and beats them by using their own instincts about domination against them. He tells them they can't attack him in that pose; it's against their nature. Not 100% accurate but still an interesting take on it.